RE: Does it matter to you?

RE: Does it matter to you?

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RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/7/2010 4:47:00 PM

Moshman

Posts: 79
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MacDaddy

nope.
I try not to believe anything based on fear.

So you don't believe in welfare or universal health care or any social welfare programs because you are not afraid that you will ever end up hurt, losing your job, out on the street with no way to provide or feed them?

_____________________________

I'm out soon, but I'll be back, don't worry.

(in reply to MacDaddy)

Post #: 21

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/7/2010 5:17:08 PM

MacDaddy

Posts: 451
Joined: 8/12/2009
From: Johnston County NC
Status: offline

well I don' t know what that has to do with religion.

and sure I think about it. who doesn't?
my life doesn't revolve around thinking about it though.
I guess I can keep doing what I need to do to provide for
my family because I do have a job.

people need help from time to time, I have no problem with that.
it's the people that take blatant advantage of the system, that
every tax payer pays for, that upsets me.

welfare: ok, as long as it's temporary.
forced universal healthcare: doesn't sound like a good idea to me, sounds like I will
be paying much more in taxes so everyone will have mediocre healthcare, at best.

so now politics are being discussed, which is a good thing, religion was touched upon for
a brief second, I guess all that is left is money...So can someone lend me $500.00

(in reply to Moshman)

Post #: 22

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/7/2010 5:22:13 PM

Moshman

Posts: 79
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedlineMXIII

Yes Mosh I read the entire article. You know you think that talking down to me builds you up but it does not. Defending this guy speaks volumes to me of your ideology. Taking this option off the table is unwise and sophomoric. No good leader would take leverage and options away from himself or his countries security. The one thing that I expect from our government is national security. That means never bowing to foreign leaders that hate us or like us. We stand as the beacon of freedom for the world and should never relent, apologize, or appease. They have nothing to fear if they don't attack us. If they do then look out we are gonna destroy them. Just ask Japan or the terrorists. I guess that I should not be to alarmed because he lies about everything else and he is probably lying about this too. Wake up bro.
Questions.
Have you ever read the Constitution? If so do you really understand it? Do know the history of how this country was built? Do you know the history since Jamestown? Do you need the government to take care of you?
History matters.

I guess I'll answer the questions first:
It's important not to simply read the Constitution, simply reading it does not lead to a greater understanding, also it tends to create a sense finality when read, when the forefathers never wanted it to be more then the base on which our democracy is formed. Over the years many things have changed, and trying to impose the Constitution as if it were some Kings Will has become impossible. Instead we must interpret it, understand it on a higher level. I think of it as the Bible in that sense. Yes you must read it, but you must also study it to truly understand it's meaning. I have been to plenty of History lectures and know how our county was built. In fact one of the largest lessons I got from this history of how our country was built, was that we should build it the way we want. No I do not need to government to take care of me, I am not disabled, I do not have a learning disability and I am currently employed and plan to be for quite some time. However I do believe that if presented our current situation and given the ability to study it, our forefathers would include a universal health care system within the Bill of Rights. The only reason I think it's not included is simply because no one had thought of it yet, and it wasn't an issue. Social Medicine didn't even begin until the 1880's in Germany, and then quickly spread. America probably would have adopted it sooner, perhaps in the 50's, but we were in general doing much better economically then the rest of the world, even with the great depression lumped in that time frame. Another thing to consider is that in a way we did adapt it, 45% of our current health care comes from the Government, and despite all of the money we pay our insurers they are only in for 35%...*

I'm sorry you feel I am talking down to you, I'm not, I may be a little annoyed about having to rehash the same shit over and over again, but I don't mean to come off as though I am talking down to you. The thing is though Redline, you are refusing again and again to look at facts. You say that no good leader would leverage and options away from himself, and your right. However you fail to see how limiting our use of Nukes give Obama increased leverage and options against real threat nations. He hasn't removed the option, hell if anything this serves as a reminded to our fellow nations that we have it and will use it if provoked. However it's important not to poke at the crazy guy too much Redline. If someone attacks America then God help them, but if they do it with a nuke then God help us. Can you imagine what it would be like to lose an entire state in the blink of an eye? Sure we would retaliate, eye for an eye, however again, they would just send another. Even if they didn't the damage would be done. Continuing the way we are headed will eventually turn us into a military state. Our entire being will not be dedicated to freedom, but instead to the never ending pursuit of increased arms and might.

I'd like to get back to my original question to you, despite is "lies" and his "terrible leadership" how is your life any worse?

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

_____________________________

I'm out soon, but I'll be back, don't worry.

(in reply to RedlineMXIII)

Post #: 23

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/7/2010 5:34:01 PM

Moshman

Posts: 79
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline

Sorry man, I'm broke!

Alright, so here's the thing about the Christian question, and maybe you'll agree, maybe you won't but I'm tired of all of these people out there who piss and moan about being forced to pay a little extra to help their fellow man and then try and call themselves Christian, I find that hypocritical BUT!!!!!
I didn't want to assume you were a christian, however if you had said yes, then I would have used it against you...

No worries though, after all, now that you have clarified, your response is perfectly logical, social programs should be temporary depending on each persons situation. I don't think any of use want someone who is mentally retarded being forced on the street because they can not afford food or housing, however the lazy bastard who refuses to get a job and has no disabilities or any reason why he shouldn't be working, might as well take a hike.

People keep using the phrase, "forced universal health care", as opposed to unforced? I think the goal here was to insure everyone and have everyone paying what they could into the pot. It operates under the same principal that current insurance operates under, everyone pays for everyone else. Sure you might be healthy your whole life, and John has cancer and is in and out of the hospital his whole life. Isn't your good health and peace of mind worth the few extra taxes which in all fairness may simply end up being redirected medical pay out of your paycheck? I mean if you think about it, your paying each month for your health care anyway, that's not going to go up, the money is just going to go somewhere else. I also doubt that the service will go down. Most hospitals can't turn anyone away already because of state and federal funding. My local hospital has to help anyone who walks through the door. With that in mind, that may be why you are felling a sense of being "forced" however if we had an opt out option, how would we quickly determine who's in and who's out? Also don't you think that the guy who opted out will change his tune real quick anyway the next time he brakes his arm or cuts himself deep enough to need stitches? Also if your interested in keeping your current health care, I think that's going to be an option, and then I doubt you will have to pay into the social program. So again I wonder how this is a bad thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MacDaddy

well I don' t know what that has to do with religion.

and sure I think about it. who doesn't?
my life doesn't revolve around thinking about it though.
I guess I can keep doing what I need to do to provide for
my family because I do have a job.

people need help from time to time, I have no problem with that.
it's the people that take blatant advantage of the system, that
every tax payer pays for, that upsets me.

welfare: ok, as long as it's temporary.
forced universal healthcare: doesn't sound like a good idea to me, sounds like I will
be paying much more in taxes so everyone will have mediocre healthcare, at best.

so now politics are being discussed, which is a good thing, religion was touched upon for
a brief second, I guess all that is left is money...So can someone lend me $500.00

_____________________________

I'm out soon, but I'll be back, don't worry.

(in reply to MacDaddy)

Post #: 24

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/7/2010 5:49:06 PM

MacDaddy

Posts: 451
Joined: 8/12/2009
From: Johnston County NC
Status: offline

I didn't want to assume you were a christian, however if you had said yes, then I would have used it against you...

I would certainly hope so. Seems to be all I see.

Maybe that is part of my problem as well, if a politician
has something to do with it, it probably isn't a good idea.
That is what I see. But at least I see it equally between all
politicians.

Even though noone seems to see eye to eye, I still think it's good to hash shit out.
If people are talking or typing or arguing or agreeing at least they are communicating
and that means they care (I teared up a little as I typed this).

My .02 are spent. So unless you all elect me as Supreme Dictator for Life I guess
I am done.

(in reply to Moshman)

Post #: 25

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/8/2010 9:15:56 AM

Moshman

Posts: 79
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline

I too wouldn't mind if this thread died out. As much as I like hashing shit out, anything we conclude upon here won’t really matter much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MacDaddy

I didn't want to assume you were a christian, however if you had said yes, then I would have used it against you...

I would certainly hope so. Seems to be all I see.

Maybe that is part of my problem as well, if a politician
has something to do with it, it probably isn't a good idea.
That is what I see. But at least I see it equally between all
politicians.

Even though noone seems to see eye to eye, I still think it's good to hash shit out.
If people are talking or typing or arguing or agreeing at least they are communicating
and that means they care (I teared up a little as I typed this).

My .02 are spent. So unless you all elect me as Supreme Dictator for Life I guess
I am done.

_____________________________

I'm out soon, but I'll be back, don't worry.

(in reply to MacDaddy)

Post #: 26

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/8/2010 10:03:01 AM

deano

Posts: 999
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline

Two things in life that drive all men crazy, pussy and politics! So let's all have a

and look at pussy!

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Old bikes need love too, get them off the carpet and ride!

Kurt88 says... "that he slapped them with his wanker"

(in reply to Moshman)

Post #: 27

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/8/2010 1:27:45 PM

MacDaddy

Posts: 451
Joined: 8/12/2009
From: Johnston County NC
Status: offline

sounds like the perfect plan deano

(in reply to deano)

Post #: 28

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/8/2010 1:58:08 PM

RedlineMXIII

Posts: 1652
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline

Ok I will let it die. I will take it elsewhere. Sorry if the state of our nation is too stressful to care about or fuss about.
I'm done. Thanks for all the input from all. Peace. ~MX-III

_____________________________

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

(in reply to MacDaddy)

Post #: 29

RE: Does it matter to you? - 4/8/2010 7:57:41 PM

Jays24